tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post3184173100491841557..comments2024-01-13T18:57:18.243-05:00Comments on Information Processing: Pinker on GladwellSteve Hsuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-77469262544235646272014-12-05T22:39:09.178-05:002014-12-05T22:39:09.178-05:00It's been a while since I read Outliers so my ...It's been a while since I read Outliers so my memory of this particular section of the book may be flawed. As I remember it, Gladwell was writing in very general terms about the "real world" advantage of IQ. As I understood his idea, the person with a 140 or 150 IQ doesn't really live much better than the person with a 125 IQ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-53916291456657085002010-01-13T20:36:32.755-05:002010-01-13T20:36:32.755-05:00I largely agree with the commentary on Gladwell, b...I largely agree with the commentary on Gladwell, but as a social scientist, I wince at the characterization of social science and social scientists as wrongheaded on the basis of a method - anecdotal - that good social scientists deplore. I am a social scientist; I don't ignore this literature; what does this mean for your category?naidheachdairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18301802867962632096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-65071550034550988282009-11-19T21:12:21.272-05:002009-11-19T21:12:21.272-05:00It was my understanding that there was a weak corr...It was my understanding that there was a weak correlation at best between IQ and success, and that there are other metrics more closely correlated with success. Such as the classic "here's a marshmallow, but if you wait you have have two" experiment on children.<br /><br />Maybe the accuracy of this claim falls into question when you define "success" as "becoming an Shanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17023519482024334644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-62466917216761814822009-11-19T16:44:08.117-05:002009-11-19T16:44:08.117-05:00I would raise the bar to IQ 140. Then what Gladwe...I would raise the bar to IQ 140. Then what Gladwell said is largely true. But he did bring a good point about hard work and persistency, the important factors contributing to success, when other variables are equal (same IQ). Steve, take you for instance, you IQ probably can win you a Nobel but did you? Did you ever ask yourself? Maybe you got a little side tracked by other things such as Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00535177058880224466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-2005356704568119902009-11-18T18:00:55.256-05:002009-11-18T18:00:55.256-05:00Gladwell: "... Once someone has reached an IQ...Gladwell: "... Once someone has reached an IQ of somewhere around 120, having additional IQ points doesn't seem to translate into any measurable real-world advantage."<br /><br />This quote sounds familiar to me. I think that unless one interprets this very narrowly it is demonstrably incorrect.<br /><br />Does the ability to gain admission to Harvard Law School constitute a "Steve Hsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-69510608084293706372009-11-18T17:27:35.739-05:002009-11-18T17:27:35.739-05:00I apologize, my entire comment didn't post.
...I apologize, my entire comment didn't post. <br /><br />I see what Pinker wrote, but Pinker mischaracterizes Gladwell. You admitted in the comments Gladwell's true point from Outliers.<br /><br />From Outliers: "But there's a catch. The relationship between success and IQ works only up to a point. Once someone has reached an IQ of somewhere around 120, having additional IQ pointsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14423674027881608016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-7962435805407970452009-11-18T17:21:07.289-05:002009-11-18T17:21:07.289-05:00Pinker doesn't say "greater success"...Pinker doesn't say "greater success" but Gladwell does. Pinker says "greater intellectual achievements," but if you read the book that's clearly not what Gladwell is talking about. Pinker misrepresents Gladwell's point, you blindly follow, criticizing Gladwell for a claim he never made. Again, disappointing and sloppy. To me, this is worse than any benign Igon Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14423674027881608016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-8131915205210860732009-11-18T16:18:43.853-05:002009-11-18T16:18:43.853-05:00Thanks for the correction!
Pinker wrote "......Thanks for the correction!<br /><br />Pinker wrote "... above a minimum I.Q. of 120, higher intelligence does not bring greater intellectual achievements."<br /><br />Do you agree or disagree with that statement? I think the studies I cite address it rather specifically.<br /><br />Note he doesn't say "greater job success" or "greater wealth" -- he's quite Steve Hsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-19203505804098843522009-11-18T16:12:01.575-05:002009-11-18T16:12:01.575-05:00I'm assuming by "commenteriat" you m...I'm assuming by "commenteriat" you mean "commentariat."<br /><br />You're disappointing.<br /><br />You also admit in the comments: "There are a lot of careers where the "IQ over 120 doesn't matter rule" actually applies: i.e., where other factors such as hard work, interpersonal skills, etc. are as or more important than brainpower." This is Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14423674027881608016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-55490743874947188782009-11-17T12:43:20.019-05:002009-11-17T12:43:20.019-05:00There are three homophones for imminent. I can'...There are three homophones for imminent. I can't keep them straight.<br />"immanent" isn't used very often though.Ian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837467954881003505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-68548347085781323112009-11-17T12:21:43.674-05:002009-11-17T12:21:43.674-05:00My treatment of this sad confrontation is here:
h...My treatment of this sad confrontation is here:<br /><br />http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2009/11/pinker-on-gladwell/Michael Anissimovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06217926458888484768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-45970200844670049202009-11-16T23:33:13.024-05:002009-11-16T23:33:13.024-05:00anon, your post is virtually incomprehensible, but...anon, your post is virtually incomprehensible, but it looks like you don't think eminent (not "imminent") don't have an average IQ much different than the rest of the population. Do you really believe that? Of course there are high IQ people who don't ever amount to much, but that's not the point. Ever hear of a necessary but not sufficient condition?zarkov01https://www.blogger.com/profile/01062623377758910681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-85258179434450139122009-11-16T23:18:13.713-05:002009-11-16T23:18:13.713-05:00Sorry if that sentence is misleading. I'm not ...Sorry if that sentence is misleading. I'm not claiming to have *proved* causation. The data is *consistent* with IQ causing success and inconsistent with success causing IQ, but does not demonstrate causation. I'm trying to summarize a long discussion that took place on the Roe study post.Steve Hsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-24641997845983092362009-11-16T23:12:44.355-05:002009-11-16T23:12:44.355-05:00So, accomplished scientists tend to have high IQs,...<i>So, accomplished scientists tend to have high IQs, and their IQs were already high before they became scientists -- the causality is clear.</i><br /><br />How is causality established? The fact that IQ predicts career success prior to entry into the market does not mean that IQ is causing (or preventing) such career success. I don't doubt that IQ is a cause (to some extent), but I'm ben ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04802090467106119091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-81060957433905082872009-11-16T18:53:55.926-05:002009-11-16T18:53:55.926-05:00Thanks for the info Steve!
Anon, you must be acti...Thanks for the info Steve!<br /><br />Anon, you must be acting very sarcastic. By the way, it sounds like you're BSing, since with a 770 GMAT you should be able to get in a tier 1 school, or, at least a tier 3, assuming your GPA is over 3.0<br /><br />I only got a 450 on the GMAT, lol. I think with hard work I could have hit 475 though! My math skills suck. Always have. <br /><br />I have no Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08759718531790878976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-74103825388001700932009-11-16T17:17:14.895-05:002009-11-16T17:17:14.895-05:00IQ and imminent scientists post. A joke.
IQ and &...IQ and imminent scientists post. A joke.<br /><br />IQ and "challenging career". A joke.<br /><br />SAT math at age 13 and future accomplishment. A joke.<br /><br />Knowing that ideologues take the most meagre "evidence" for their theories as proof, priceless.<br /><br />If only Steve's IQ were higher he would be an imminent scientist.<br /><br />Pinker on the IQ of Ian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837467954881003505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-55216974065695323462009-11-16T17:01:36.135-05:002009-11-16T17:01:36.135-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837467954881003505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-34272947506670316062009-11-16T16:05:47.201-05:002009-11-16T16:05:47.201-05:00Sam,
IQ is only a statistical predictor. Don'...Sam, <br /><br />IQ is only a statistical predictor. Don't let it stop you from trying to succeed. There are a lot of careers where the "IQ over 120 doesn't matter rule" actually applies: i.e., where other factors such as hard work, interpersonal skills, etc. are as or more important than brainpower.Steve Hsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-92142264004430286482009-11-16T12:25:38.533-05:002009-11-16T12:25:38.533-05:00Steve,
A lot of what you write concerns the ultr...Steve, <br /><br />A lot of what you write concerns the ultra smart (which is interesting). The genes I was dealt leave me to a life of relative mediocrity (50th percentile verbal GMAT, 24th percentile quantitative\)--I have estimated my IQ to be between 104-115, so I am limited drastically. I am currently in a 3rd tier MBA program trying to complete an emphasis in accounting. Even though I have Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08759718531790878976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-38199364348305560432009-11-16T10:38:09.686-05:002009-11-16T10:38:09.686-05:00Perhaps liberalism is the future if human biodiver...Perhaps liberalism is the future if human biodiversity is accepted. How much harder would it be for the republicans to blame the victim classes for their plights once more people realize that traits like intelligence, personality, and even laziness are in part influenced by genes?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08759718531790878976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-6073782393312815682009-11-16T10:02:57.379-05:002009-11-16T10:02:57.379-05:00Political correctness is inexplicable to me. Revi...Political correctness is inexplicable to me. Reviewing recent literature in sociology I found this in P. Burstein, 2007, Jewish Educational and Economic success in the United States: A Search for Explanations, <i> Sociological Perspectives </i> 50:209-228.<br /><br /><br /><i>There are three major reputable social-scientific explanations of why Jews do so well. (I emphasize “reputable” and “Henry Harpendinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17323186101339026326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-27419627885974118472009-11-16T02:10:05.553-05:002009-11-16T02:10:05.553-05:00It's tempting to hypothesize that our social p...It's tempting to hypothesize that our social processes somehow "repress" uncomfortable theories like psychometrics.Sethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16486234948199900568noreply@blogger.com