tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post9101213380393376340..comments2024-01-13T18:57:18.243-05:00Comments on Information Processing: Asian-American admissions in the Boston GlobeSteve Hsuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-32283887493927268102010-02-26T19:17:30.394-05:002010-02-26T19:17:30.394-05:00I find that immersing myself in the course materia...I find that immersing myself in the course material and learning because I love what I'm learning leads me to earn great grades without stressing over it. Learning is fun, the knowledge acquired is fascinating, and that is what is important. <br /><br />Too many students I've met (of all races) don't care much for learning or the course material. They care so much about grades theyThe Asian of Reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07518010845263444471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-58831275921879889452010-02-26T19:03:49.891-05:002010-02-26T19:03:49.891-05:00I agree that the system we have now is unfair, esp...I agree that the system we have now is unfair, especially to Asians. <br /><br />East Asian college admissions (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, China) are extremely meritocratic, with a national exam being the primary basis for admissions decisions. I think their system is flawed, because it puts a ton of pressure on students, but it is surely better than the one we have now. But East Asian The Asian of Reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07518010845263444471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-20997253345685039042010-02-25T22:18:39.519-05:002010-02-25T22:18:39.519-05:00While on average Asian Americans certainly face mo...While on average Asian Americans certainly face more pressure from their parents, I'm not entirely sure the problem is as extreme as you make it out to be. Most of my Asian American friends probably faced more pressure to work hard and do well compared to say a typical white American, but I rarely encountered anyone who was literally coerced by their parents to go into a certain field. But Yan Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06626415549772069331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-74280207319058332542010-02-25T22:16:15.424-05:002010-02-25T22:16:15.424-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Yan Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06626415549772069331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-56238554639493757772010-02-25T20:08:06.057-05:002010-02-25T20:08:06.057-05:00^
I am Asian American, and no, I am not ignorant o...^<br />I am Asian American, and no, I am not ignorant of the issues surrounding our communities. <br /><br />A lot of my Asian friends and family members fit the stereotypes all too well, unfortunately. I see way too many of them trying for med school or prestigious Universities simply because their parents want them to. A lot of them have true passions, but they are coerced by their parents The Asian of Reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07518010845263444471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-56996120411064196672010-02-25T13:44:48.096-05:002010-02-25T13:44:48.096-05:00Keep stereotyping Asians, Veritas, it just shows h...Keep stereotyping Asians, Veritas, it just shows how ignorant you are. The bottom line is that Asian Americans throw a wrench into the typical liberal justification for granting affirmative action to certain under-represented groups. People who criticize Asian Americans are, in my opinion, mostly trying to avoid the realization that many of their justifications for upholding AA are in all Yan Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06626415549772069331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-47759726897731495592010-02-24T11:22:02.517-05:002010-02-24T11:22:02.517-05:00I find it despicable when leaders like Poon bring ...I find it despicable when leaders like Poon bring up the "historical oppression" of Asians. It's not like we are black. We don't need that excuse. <br /><br />Very few Asian Americans are legacies, recruited athletes, or interesting enough. The difference cannot be explained away by these factors alone, but they do play an important role in understanding elite college The Asian of Reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07518010845263444471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-33967830459735625842010-02-18T23:01:16.285-05:002010-02-18T23:01:16.285-05:00Isn't the entire point of affirmative action t...<i>Isn't the entire point of affirmative action to help out minority groups which have historically been discriminated against by the majority white population? </i><br /><br />No. It is to advance members of underachieving racial groups and to obtain racially mixed populations at elite schools and institutions.keypusherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07176947522040838625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-40775455598038353162010-02-12T05:45:06.232-05:002010-02-12T05:45:06.232-05:00You got it!
The US is alone among the rich countr...You got it!<br /><br />The US is alone among the rich countries of the world in its ability to deny the reality of social class.<br /><br />It alone among these countries can divert attention from class by talking about race.Ian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837467954881003505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-14830710489580056532010-02-11T18:08:45.100-05:002010-02-11T18:08:45.100-05:00Sine,
You are right -- in Espenshade's model ...Sine,<br /><br />You are right -- in Espenshade's model 6 regressions Asians are advantaged over whites in the lower and working class categories, while disadvantaged in the middle, upper middle and upper categories. When all SES groups are aggregated, Asians are overall disadvantaged relative to whites. If his model is correct I would have to withdraw my Globe comment that admissions Steve Hsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-18621873798088692722010-02-11T16:48:34.626-05:002010-02-11T16:48:34.626-05:00re:
>>Espenshade also found that
>>low...re:<br />>>Espenshade also found that<br />>>lower-income Asians are being favored<br />>>(that is, both regression-predicted and observed to be admitted at higher rates)<br />>>over whites of all income levels.<br /><br />Steve asked:<br />>"Not sure what you are referring to here.<br />>Can you be more specific?"<br /><br />I'm referring to EspenshadeUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10201409496786890630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-78875587207167660512010-02-11T16:37:49.148-05:002010-02-11T16:37:49.148-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10201409496786890630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-67128353084637577262010-02-10T17:23:36.096-05:002010-02-10T17:23:36.096-05:00Sine, I want to say two things regarding your comm...Sine, I want to say two things regarding your comment "If you believe that Asians on average apply more effort and preparation, this means that Asian credentials are less correlated with talent at any given level of measured performance."<br /><br />1. Why shouldn't hard work be rewarded and why should hard work be viewed as inferior to "talent" or "innate ability&George Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12769306681599276409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-69650975812331814072010-02-10T17:19:20.537-05:002010-02-10T17:19:20.537-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.George Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12769306681599276409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-81914620652142785222010-02-10T14:29:04.139-05:002010-02-10T14:29:04.139-05:00Sine, is there any empirical proof that Asian Amer...Sine, is there any empirical proof that Asian American over-achievement is more so the result of hard work rather than say innate ability, compared to the achievements of other groups? Or should I just take it for granted that this is some self evident far left a prior truth. Without any real evidence, I fail to see how exploring this counter-factual has any real meaning.<br />But I'll play Yan Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06626415549772069331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-15430344127863586872010-02-10T14:18:28.952-05:002010-02-10T14:18:28.952-05:00>Espenshade also found that lower-income Asians...>Espenshade also found that lower-income Asians are being favored (that is, both regression-predicted and observed to be admitted at higher rates) over whites of all income levels.<<br /><br />Not sure what you are referring to here. Can you be more specific?<br /><br />I think the most salient claim here is that if one tries to control for overall "quality" of applicant: grades, Steve Hsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-31607138777473891982010-02-10T14:00:32.421-05:002010-02-10T14:00:32.421-05:00Steve, stop peddling the social pseudoscience. A...Steve, stop peddling the social pseudoscience. A large fraction of your blog posts here are about how today's social science is a mass of innumerate garbage --- a correct assessment. These Asian admissions studies never get the same critical treatment, they are just declared as "the truth" and "obvious". Those are direct quotations. <br /><br />re: Espenshade's &Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10201409496786890630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-7366709571330141802010-02-10T13:19:56.034-05:002010-02-10T13:19:56.034-05:00Steve, isn't political ideology also a huge is...Steve, isn't political ideology also a huge issue here? I don't believe that Asian Americans are being singled out merely because of race or success alone. Rather, I believe that it mainly has to do with the fact that we live in a society which happens to embrace a priori liberal notions of blank slate equality. Therefore any differences in performance between different groups must be theYan Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06626415549772069331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-79147033935300841072010-02-10T12:20:18.591-05:002010-02-10T12:20:18.591-05:00> Steve, you should have faith that the market ...> Steve, you should have faith that the market will correct itself eventually. If being a true meritocracy is really a good business strategy for colleges, if there are so many great candidates being undervalued out there, then someone is leaving money on the table. <<br /><br />Keep in mind I'm not a big buyer of the efficient market hypothesis (see, housing bubbles, CDO pricing, etc.)Steve Hsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-60832191265752866632010-02-10T10:08:26.631-05:002010-02-10T10:08:26.631-05:00I don't understand why some people would worry...I don't understand why some people would worry 50% of the student body would be Asian, such as the case of UCLA, if school admission relies only merits. The fact that UC sysem has a high % of Asian is exactly because the stupid policies that all ivy league schools are adopting. Since many qualified Asians can't get into schools like Hardvard or MIT. Naturally they will apply schools George Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12769306681599276409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-58138414038946201022010-02-10T04:57:57.739-05:002010-02-10T04:57:57.739-05:00Steve, you should have faith that the market will ...Steve, you should have faith that the market will correct itself eventually. If being a true meritocracy is really a good business strategy for colleges, if there are so many great candidates being undervalued out there, then someone is leaving money on the table. <br /><br />That colleges are not rushing to do so should suggest that they have made their assessment and decided otherwise. <br /><anonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09436255271743921378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-7271526781431560112010-02-10T04:45:56.764-05:002010-02-10T04:45:56.764-05:00"though my impression has been that your inte..."though my impression has been that your interest lies purely in increasing acceptance rates for Asians"<br />"your co-ethnic quoted in the article certainly seems to favor racial preferences"<br /><br />Because all 'co-ethnics' must at least implicitly hold the same opinions. And Steve's concern must be all about advancing his ethnic group's interests, and cananonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09436255271743921378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-82946404726074524862010-02-10T02:02:35.812-05:002010-02-10T02:02:35.812-05:00I'm not really worried about lots of Asian stu...I'm not really worried about lots of Asian students attending college. But I am worried about Steve's incredible emphasis on college and exam scores. There are many people, even some of my friends who are highly successful with little or no college. Even some inventors have managed to comprehend lots of important engineering and scientific insight. With such a narrow view of success, AlchemXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08475764756477708163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-77459358733636736212010-02-09T19:13:19.444-05:002010-02-09T19:13:19.444-05:00N/A, I'm also extremely disappointed by your c...N/A, I'm also extremely disappointed by your comparison of how Asian Americans are impacted by AA to the hypothetical scenario of white immigrants wanting to attend Chinese universities. Clearly, the issue here has to do with Asian Americans, rather than with foreign students coming from Asia to study. These are two entirely different issues.<br />I think it's a legitimate concern whetherYan Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06626415549772069331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-4903232834925466562010-02-09T18:42:06.163-05:002010-02-09T18:42:06.163-05:00Affirmative action is a terrible policy. I don'...Affirmative action is a terrible policy. I don't think anyone should have to "bear the burden" for anything. If it were up to me, AA wouldn't exist in any form. But if affirmative action must be implemented, it's really hard for me to see why the burden of AA should mostly be shifted onto Asian Americans. Isn't the entire point of affirmative action to help out minority Yan Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06626415549772069331noreply@blogger.com