tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post8584475562373647347..comments2024-01-13T18:57:18.243-05:00Comments on Information Processing: Demography and destinySteve Hsuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comBlogger75125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-56784491553082103332011-07-11T15:47:18.067-04:002011-07-11T15:47:18.067-04:00This article and most of the comments all seem lik...This article and most of the comments all seem like self-serving and unsophisticated readings of the data. "Whites" are not a reasonable category for comparison, for example. For example, here are more whites born into poverty than there are Asians in America. They do not have the advantages of cram courses and living in big cities with educators who have an eye out for kids with socsciwonknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-4375747662629271682011-03-04T04:11:22.069-05:002011-03-04T04:11:22.069-05:00Respectfully was my intention, thanks. The south ...Respectfully was my intention, thanks. The south can be a difficult place, but a few good schools live here.<br /><br />About my definitions: Lets just try to forget ethnicity for a minute, as that dimension of the issue really warps people's thinking and writing. You know of a group of people with higher IQs who don't get into Harvard while some other people with lower IQs do get in. Cogito Ergo Doleonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-10255723085207503842011-03-03T23:52:41.137-05:002011-03-03T23:52:41.137-05:00Why not just admit that you're a bigot who dis...Why not just admit that you're a bigot who dislikes Asian Americans? You could have spared us from having to read your empty rhetoric. Considering that you never attended an Ivy League institution or a similarly elite school, I wonder why you're so worked up over this issue to begin with? I've noticed that a lot of the whites commenting in this thread never attended a prestigious Yan Shennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-81858397247644801082011-03-03T18:56:58.793-05:002011-03-03T18:56:58.793-05:00You seem to have adopted unusual definitions of &q...You seem to have adopted unusual definitions of "discrimination" and "bias".<br /><br />Overrepresentation relative to population fraction is not prima facie evidence against discrimination or bias. In the early 20th century Jews were overrepresented as a group at elite schools, yet the administrators and faculty at HYP talked openly about why and how to discriminate against steve hsuhttp://duende.uoregon.edu/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-4092927370930045742011-03-03T15:42:13.713-05:002011-03-03T15:42:13.713-05:00Respectively disagree with your whole thesis, whic...Respectively disagree with your whole thesis, which is that admissions ought to be purely meritocratic. It should not, anymore than admissions should be based on beauty, financial muscle, predicted future propensity to be president, give money to alma mater, or any other single criteria or even fixed group of criteria.<br />The original article you cite in the original post says "they Cogito Ergo Doleonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-17652695276002353162011-02-26T07:43:01.008-05:002011-02-26T07:43:01.008-05:00From LA and an asshole? Go figure.From LA and an asshole? Go figure.anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-35942247746835487632011-02-22T10:43:49.053-05:002011-02-22T10:43:49.053-05:00An individual's traits can change over time, a...An individual's traits can change over time, and the traits that make one successful in a particular society can differ by society or in time.steve hsuhttp://duende.uoregon.edu/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-91884734121052657282011-02-22T02:52:28.438-05:002011-02-22T02:52:28.438-05:00When I worked as an actuary in LA the department w...When I worked as an actuary in LA the department was half oriental and half white with Jews and gentiles. Soon after I left the department was reorganized along ethnic lines or so I was told. Very hard for me to believe, but it would be an example. Language was a REALLY big problem.Mr_Cholmondeleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-56179219311695177492011-02-22T02:18:33.342-05:002011-02-22T02:18:33.342-05:00tend to be much less heritable than g so there wou...<i>tend to be much less heritable than g so there would be a correspondingly stronger cultural component</i><br /><i>I'd change my mind if I saw evidence that asians grads of elite colleges are notably more successful than whites</i><br /><br />Both of you are assuming that American society is an absolute. If Asian elite grads achieve less is this a vice of this group or is it a Mr_Cholmondeleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-48950738904202625202011-02-21T20:15:12.974-05:002011-02-21T20:15:12.974-05:00Good point. However, I'm more familiar with i...Good point. However, I'm more familiar with it done solely for college applications by middle and upper middle class parents and was thinking in that context when I wrote that. <br /><br />Epenshade shows that if you're poorer, you're better off keeping the Asian name for college applications. Certainly, any Hispanic, Africa, Islamic or other ethnic names that will generally conferDudashlarrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-76950466625820869682011-02-21T11:43:26.683-05:002011-02-21T11:43:26.683-05:00Larry, I love white people.Larry, I love white people.Yan Shennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-22393846723919068622011-02-21T11:36:16.581-05:002011-02-21T11:36:16.581-05:00Great dialog. I especially like the line "Co...Great dialog. I especially like the line "Come on now, I am happy to admit my people... even smell worse than yours." Too true :0 Some of the smartest ones suffer this tragic malady most.<br /><br />I don't see the elite HYPS+ universities really denying able Asians their shot at leadership in a broad range of social roles such institutions make as their mission. Steve has Dudashlarrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-62664602974566016762011-02-20T20:59:30.873-05:002011-02-20T20:59:30.873-05:00If they said that they're wrong. Sure last nam...If they said that they're wrong. Sure last names can be ambiguous, but I have pictures, first and middle names, hometowns, and high school attended. Plus I knew many of them. Using the random method of looking at the last person on each page, of the first 25 white people 5 are jewish, 20 are not. None were ambiguous. roughly 20% of the white students in my class when they are about 3% of ZZnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-52532219744414225752011-02-20T20:16:18.958-05:002011-02-20T20:16:18.958-05:00Just as black culture is inferior to white, white ...Just as black culture is inferior to white, white is inferior to Jewish and Asian-American. White parents in general are not involved in their children's lives at all and blame their success or failure native ability.Mr_Cholmondeleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-91542482951750662042011-02-20T19:54:31.498-05:002011-02-20T19:54:31.498-05:00and you are confident they do the first
I really ...<i>and you are confident they do the first</i><br /><br />I really doubt that the discrimination is conscious, and therefore it really isn't discrimination. That merit is defined in such a way or left undefined in such a way that it benefits one group so much more than others does suggest that this is a result of disproportionate influence of that group, but that influence may be only Mr_Cholmondeleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-49759714440722626262011-02-20T18:53:35.751-05:002011-02-20T18:53:35.751-05:00Names can be misleading. My sources are Ron Unz an...Names can be misleading. My sources are Ron Unz and Alan Dershowitz.Mr_Cholmondeleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-62663884682981665202011-02-20T15:41:29.410-05:002011-02-20T15:41:29.410-05:00Re: trivial normal distribution calculations, a la...Re: trivial normal distribution calculations, a la La Griffe. Take a population of 10M people (roughly 150k HS grads each year) with mean IQ 105 and SD 15. If the typical elite student has IQ 135 then about 2 percent of this population meets the cutoff. That would be 3k kids per year. Distribute over the 15k elite freshmen each year (say, 10 schools with entering classes of 1.5k), that's 20 steve hsuhttp://duende.uoregon.edu/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-41407452573604538812011-02-20T13:39:08.310-05:002011-02-20T13:39:08.310-05:00I think the jury is still out on "verbally fl...I think the jury is still out on "verbally fluent", "creative" and IQ SD. <br /><br />The bottom line, as I have expressed elsewhere on this thread, is that it's not clear whether the current admissions filter used by HYPS is the optimal one for future prestige and endowment size. Perhaps they are doing the "right" (optimal in the above sense) thing by steve hsuhttp://duende.uoregon.edu/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-83556189995286316172011-02-20T11:44:52.461-05:002011-02-20T11:44:52.461-05:00You only "suspect" the average high scor...You only "suspect" the average high scoring asian has studied more for the SAT and "it's possible" asians are less assertive than whites? I would bet my life on both. Come on now, I am happy to admit my people are dumber, less industrious, more impulsive, more prone to crime and even smell worse than yours. Now you don't need to hedge around in admitting that yours areZZnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-70991627057037424062011-02-20T10:58:16.879-05:002011-02-20T10:58:16.879-05:00I don't think the Jewish advantage is g alone....I don't think the Jewish advantage is g alone. Part of it is desire for success, willingness to delay gratification, etc. The same grinding that Asians are up for.<br /><br />There may be positive discrimination in favor of Jews by now, but I don't have a good window into that part of the system so I don't really know.<br /><br />Keep in mind a large fraction of the non-Jewish white steve hsuhttp://duende.uoregon.edu/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-53827169939130176272011-02-20T08:41:30.480-05:002011-02-20T08:41:30.480-05:00"I don't think we really know, although m..."I don't think we really know, although my guess is that American-born E. Asians perform as well as whites with similar g."<br /><br />But g is not what is tested on the SAT, but g + preparation. And the study looked at SAT. Do you admit or deny that the mean asian with SAT of 1500 probably has more preparation than the mean white, and thus has lower g?<br /><br />As for performanceZZnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-65083379035858448502011-02-20T07:04:27.072-05:002011-02-20T07:04:27.072-05:00Stop being a prick.Stop being a prick.Reactionary_Konkvistadornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-88568125752354619262011-02-20T06:51:45.035-05:002011-02-20T06:51:45.035-05:00If their likely reasons for discriminating against...If their likely reasons for discriminating against Asians (pleasing donors, perpetuating the existing power structure) would also lead them to discriminate in favour of Jews, and you are confident they do the first, how can you be sure they don't do the second?<br />And if Jews rank on average very high (or have extremely high variance!) on some objective measure of intelligence, how do you anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-63034121163629697362011-02-20T05:57:59.706-05:002011-02-20T05:57:59.706-05:00The ENTIRE rest of the world is on Yan Shen's ...The ENTIRE rest of the world is on Yan Shen's side.Mr_Cholmondeleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-25888309004951073962011-02-20T05:55:21.770-05:002011-02-20T05:55:21.770-05:00The mean IQ of oriental college students is less t...The mean IQ of oriental college students is less than that of white college students, because such a larger fraction of orientals go to college. (Yan Shen starts to cry)Mr_Cholmondeleynoreply@blogger.com