tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post5809444378411487931..comments2024-01-13T18:57:18.243-05:00Comments on Information Processing: The common appSteve Hsuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-22698228943718932052012-05-30T01:55:51.365-04:002012-05-30T01:55:51.365-04:00Yeah, the plot is a typical intellectual cheap sho...Yeah, the plot is a typical intellectual cheap shot. The test ended up not mattering because its an imperfect predictor and this one time a guy who would have been excluded by the test ended up doing really well. Seen that argument before somewhere... I liked the movie though, but it would've been better had they manned up and had the guy have a heart attack midflight. tractalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-11413926854369832292012-05-29T18:36:47.072-04:002012-05-29T18:36:47.072-04:00Sure, any human has a certain probability of devel...Sure, any human has a certain probability of developing myopia. I do think it's fair to say that optimized genetics and optimized nurture might make it highly unlikely, though. Even so, In Vincents case, he did not have to hide his myopia because it would give him away as an invalid, but because it would give him away as not being Jerome. Likewise, I agree with your point about measuring LaurentMelchiorTelliernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-86174400859243189182012-05-29T17:56:47.398-04:002012-05-29T17:56:47.398-04:00 I should add some clarification. As I read this ... I should add some clarification. As I read this excerpt, I think about the social ramifications. The social strata are not necessarily self-organizing [as is clear in the excerpt], so there must be some relationship between the social orders, enforced by one level's superiority over the lower. Because of relative scarcity, at some stratum, the task of 'managing' the strategic David Coughlinhttp://twitter.com/dscoughlinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-16908248195574378772012-05-29T15:30:00.526-04:002012-05-29T15:30:00.526-04:00I just wish that the producers had done a DNA test...I just wish that the producers had done a DNA test prior to casting. Maybe - just maybe - a film with a better actor than Ethan Hawke in the lead would have been the result.dwbuddhttp://twitter.com/dwbuddnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-86971302170737956742012-05-29T12:09:27.164-04:002012-05-29T12:09:27.164-04:00I might need to rewatch the movie (it has been a w...I might need to rewatch the movie (it has been a while) to get my details correct, but IIRC they implied that the pre-implantation selection gave a very high probability of eliminating myopia. I believe there is enough nurture component to myopia that this was not realistic (I believe it would be possible to reduce the incidence of myopia, but unlikely to reduce it to the degree they assert). Richard Seiternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-71837997202162038772012-05-29T04:48:20.119-04:002012-05-29T04:48:20.119-04:00It's the difference between personnel selectio...It's the difference between personnel selection and personnel DE-selection.<br />What we above call positive and negative selection, respectively.<br />It's possible to both select FOR skill, and to select AGAINST probability (without certainty) of heart attack in the middle of the mission. The movie makes it clear that the probability of Vincent getting a heart attack does not mean that LaurentMelchiorTelliernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-90232030577518227812012-05-28T23:01:24.489-04:002012-05-28T23:01:24.489-04:00For pre-implantation selection of embryos my recol...For pre-implantation selection of embryos my recollection is that Gattaca presented the outcomes as much more well-defined than would be justified by anything other than an extremely (unrealistically IMHO) high heritability. I agree using genetic tests as a sole criterion for personnel selection is unrealistic as you and others have mentioned. How realistic would it be to use genetic testing asRichard Seiternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-66259547899894697362012-05-28T22:49:41.723-04:002012-05-28T22:49:41.723-04:00That is a strong assertion. Can you supply a refe...That is a strong assertion. Can you supply a reference please?Richard Seiternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-44182414834044148542012-05-28T15:54:31.113-04:002012-05-28T15:54:31.113-04:00That's true. In Gattaca, they did both, though...That's true. In Gattaca, they did both, though. In two stages. <br /><br />In the movie, Vincent (posing as Jerome) uses the Jerome genetic identity to pass the first round of negative screening, and get access to the candidate group. Presumably, this was in addition to the rest of "Jeromes" CV.<br /><br />He is then positively selected as a pilot, from among a large pool of LaurentMelchiorTelliernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-12484335341609706112012-05-28T15:48:31.238-04:002012-05-28T15:48:31.238-04:00There's a key difference between this and Gatt...There's a key difference between this and Gattaca, though. <br /><br />Gattaca uses genetic profiles to perform negative screening (high probability of heart failure = unacceptably risky candidate for interplanetary spacecraft pilot, given stable-hearted alternative candidates). <br /><br />The above fiction uses genetic profiles to perform positive screening (high probability of hard workingLaurentMelchiorTelliernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-9342777264448328702012-05-28T15:40:30.474-04:002012-05-28T15:40:30.474-04:00This is the unrealistic premise of Gattaca as well...This is the unrealistic premise of Gattaca as well.<br /><br />If you want to estimate a child's adult height, you look at their current age and height, you don't just look at family history (though you should take the latter into account as well).Christopher Changhttp://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=723726480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-22911284056482801472012-05-28T15:38:45.528-04:002012-05-28T15:38:45.528-04:00http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=25...http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=256&issue=1&page=51<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16877426<br /><br />The above google results should be enough for those with sufficient cognitive ability :) to realize that twin studies showing high heritability for IQ are close to meaningless.<br /><br />Coronary artery disease is still the rich world's biggest killer, but MtMorunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-68779104874561773102012-05-28T15:36:19.582-04:002012-05-28T15:36:19.582-04:00It implies that the author has dirty underwear and...It implies that the author has dirty underwear and narrow shoulders.<br /><br />Even among the cognitive elite the understanding and even the ability to understand what the heritability figure really means is limited. So what heritability there is is exaggerated and simplified to "social rank reflects like a well polished mirror the innate ability of the individual".<br /><br />This is MtMorunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-84558365082845097922012-05-28T15:36:13.014-04:002012-05-28T15:36:13.014-04:00"Isn't G only 70-80% heritable?"
No..."Isn't G only 70-80% heritable?"<br /><br />Not even that. The best study of IQ heritability was done on British twins. It is the best because despite its small size the range of environments in the UK is much greater than those in Minnesota or Colorado or whatever. There the heritability was < .7.<br /><br />And of course US unis would have to drop all other criteria. I would MtMorunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-3111701129275911212012-05-28T15:36:05.526-04:002012-05-28T15:36:05.526-04:00The author must think that all psychological trait...The author must think that all psychological traits are determined at conception and that their value is independent of the culture. So far as there is any such thing as a psychological trait twin studies have proved this to be false. Maybe he doesn't have the cognitive ability to interpret them?<br /><br />US unis and colleges do not select as strongly for IQ as those in other countries. ButMtMorunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-36146998118630669802012-05-28T15:11:51.278-04:002012-05-28T15:11:51.278-04:00What does the cheek swab imply? Does it mean that ...What does the cheek swab imply? Does it mean that race and sex are the only admission criteria?Robert Sykesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-42125685431905114702012-05-28T14:31:35.672-04:002012-05-28T14:31:35.672-04:00Your tone seems awfully cheeky. If this ever happe...Your tone seems awfully cheeky. If this ever happened (and it will probably happen, at least in substance) it would bring unimaginable social despair and who knows what else. Real social mobility may be low, but the imagined possibility of social mobility is solace enough to keep the thing together. Take that away and life is pretty grim, for the losers and winners both. It really isn't a :)tractalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-10562297075096429472012-05-25T20:31:09.516-04:002012-05-25T20:31:09.516-04:00It begs an empirical question. How does capacity ...It begs an empirical question. How does capacity scale with scarcity? I'm curious [and I think that it must happen], at which echelon does the task of managing subordinates become overwhelming?David Coughlinhttp://twitter.com/dscoughlinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-7725886807619170062012-05-25T17:19:14.467-04:002012-05-25T17:19:14.467-04:00Wouldn't they have already got their kids gene...Wouldn't they have already got their kids genes processed before deciding where to apply?Fred__Rnoreply@blogger.com