tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post5300638021441641792..comments2024-01-13T18:57:18.243-05:00Comments on Information Processing: Whole-genome sequence from 10 to 20 human cellsSteve Hsuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-32278611117367588942012-07-21T12:33:52.457-04:002012-07-21T12:33:52.457-04:00It appears that the clip indeed had not been uploa...It appears that the clip indeed had not been uploaded yet. So I uploaded it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFjaOnCp0loLaurentMelchiorTelliernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-63927142951434107572012-07-17T13:53:58.498-04:002012-07-17T13:53:58.498-04:00Those questions are the essence of the science sti...Those questions are the essence of the science still out there, I think. If I had to pick some likely tracks, though, someone is going to speculate [either the wealthy with their money, or the government with there regulatory power] about what constitutes 'best' and slap a label [a brand?] on it. Then it will become the standard until there is reason to believe otherwise. Steps David Coughlinhttp://twitter.com/dscoughlinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-89835631383544907682012-07-17T10:40:59.037-04:002012-07-17T10:40:59.037-04:00Ultimately, there's a real philosophical quest...Ultimately, there's a real philosophical question (at least for me), which is that to the extent that the potential of children are engineered in accordance with their parents' preferences, are those children pre-programmed to fulfill the wishes of the parents'? Should children be engineered to fulfill the ambitions of their parents?<br /><br /><br />I tend to favor genetic JustinLoenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-31297624779955785702012-07-16T12:10:46.235-04:002012-07-16T12:10:46.235-04:00One question I have with respect to both embryo se...One question I have with respect to both embryo selection and genetic engineering is will the traits selected for "breed true"? How many of the desirable genotypes will turn out to be heterozygous? (Tay-Sachs comes to mind in the intelligence context, Sickle cell anemia is another possible example, how many more are there?) Another question is how often will genotypes turn out to be Richard Seiternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-40072335074420541962012-07-16T09:40:06.471-04:002012-07-16T09:40:06.471-04:00What's more interesting to me, though, is that...What's more interesting to me, though, is that if we assume that all of this is feasible, and given the size of the known universe, there are probably many, many species who all have greater than 6 s.d. IQs (equivalents in their alien minds). Interesting.JustinLoenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-70355436120801408012012-07-15T21:52:47.907-04:002012-07-15T21:52:47.907-04:00I am with gwern0, the natural outcome is that ther...I am with gwern0, the natural outcome is that there is a specification of 'best' and all the kids will get it. Really, people aren't going to stop with IQ, they are going to order the top of the line model, and there will be a generation of kids floating around that are genetically identical. Who is going to roll the dice that they might end up with a redheaded kid. It won't beDavid Coughlinhttp://twitter.com/dscoughlinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-44217685926414539142012-07-15T20:40:55.562-04:002012-07-15T20:40:55.562-04:00You can't use US numbers for real medical cost...You can't use US numbers for real medical costs -- our system has huge distortions. Few $K is the cost in Taiwan or Korea and success rates are if anything higher there. That's not even factoring the economies of scale that would arise if a large fraction of couples wanted it.<br /><br /><br />Who says the US is the first market for this?steve hsuhttp://duende.uoregon.edu/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-53123709751066438482012-07-15T19:41:33.625-04:002012-07-15T19:41:33.625-04:00A couple of thousand for IVF? Maybe that is the c...A couple of thousand for IVF? Maybe that is the cost in<br />Mumbai. In the USA it will set you back $15K. So that close to $60K<br />to get 50 embryos and you still may still only have a 2% chance of getting +2<br />SD on your offspring. On the other hand you can greatly lower the odds<br />that your kid has ride the short buss. <br /><br /><br />Let me give you some advice before you file stat squatchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-75646137627397554932012-07-15T19:35:15.679-04:002012-07-15T19:35:15.679-04:00Yes, but the long term future will be true genetic...Yes, but the long term future will be true genetic engineering, to the extent that it is possible, in which children maximize sought after traits that may not be in their parents.JustinLoenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-27839649790028671422012-07-15T15:41:27.542-04:002012-07-15T15:41:27.542-04:00Richard - never seen the Coda - and I know this mo...Richard - never seen the Coda - and I know this movie so well - much tksLondonYoungnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-53595529753568155532012-07-15T15:38:52.484-04:002012-07-15T15:38:52.484-04:00"
some governments will be slow to adopt (eve..."<br />some governments will be slow to adopt (even legalize) this technology" - well, then, so the future is "Space Seed" rather than Gattaca. Only, as we know, Khan is gonna win the first time out ...LondonYoungnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-28199121976247312842012-07-15T12:46:26.283-04:002012-07-15T12:46:26.283-04:00That scene appears on the DVD as "Eighth Day ...That scene appears on the DVD as "Eighth Day Center (Original Version)". The parents declining the enhancements because they cost an additional $5K made a very definite point. The scene ended by discussing the disposal of the unused embryos (not at all surprised that part was cut). I was unable to find the video on YouTube (had to pull out my DVD ;-). If someone has a link please Richard Seiternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-76207644324436710412012-07-15T12:44:48.986-04:002012-07-15T12:44:48.986-04:00Well, of course you could do that - but it would b...Well, of course you could do that - but it would be a *lot* more difficult to take a random embryo and rewrite all couple thousand alleles or whatever, and do so for every embryo. In contrast, this procedure is just 'generate a bunch of embryos, sequence each, and implant the one that scores highest', and you don't have parents wigging out about their kids not being theirs and mutants.gwern0noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-57981737971161789052012-07-15T10:05:27.428-04:002012-07-15T10:05:27.428-04:00On the other hand some governments will be slow to...On the other hand some governments will be slow to adopt (even legalize) this technology, so in those countries only the rich will have access.<br /><br /><br />There's a part of the Blair Underwood (genetic counselor) scene in Gattaca that was cut in which he asked Ethan Hawke's parents whether they want genetic enhancement for Hawke's little brother -- e.g., alleles for music or steve hsuhttp://duende.uoregon.edu/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-2561583818982322282012-07-15T09:54:37.672-04:002012-07-15T09:54:37.672-04:00They'll have the genotype of both parents in a...They'll have the genotype of both parents in all likelihood, so trivial to check that the cell comes from their zygote.steve hsuhttp://duende.uoregon.edu/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-77325863202106742042012-07-15T09:13:18.483-04:002012-07-15T09:13:18.483-04:00"
I hope that progressive governments will ma..."<br />I hope that progressive governments will make this procedure free for everyone." Hmmmm, this option is so "in the money" that it is almost impossible to imagine that a govt willing to institute a one-child policy would not also make such selection mandatory - "increased economic output, decreased welfare and criminality rates" being goals primarily of the LondonYoungnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-41275856581580325412012-07-15T07:11:08.142-04:002012-07-15T07:11:08.142-04:00Once you get down to one cell, the problem of chim...Once you get down to one cell, the problem of chimeras arises. How do you know the actual source of the cells sampled?Robert Sykesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-9156069679699429542012-07-14T20:33:01.064-04:002012-07-14T20:33:01.064-04:00You can't make the leap all at one for obvious...You can't make the leap all at one for obvious reasons (e.g., a +6 SD genotype is still +6 SD improbable until direct genetic manipulation becomes possible), although keep in mind that more than 10 eggs can be extracted over multiple cycles, frozen, and then fertilized at a later date. <br /><br /><br />Imagine what a couple might pay to ensure that they get the best out of 10 or 50 possible steve hsuhttp://duende.uoregon.edu/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-5910247933987612162012-07-14T17:35:27.464-04:002012-07-14T17:35:27.464-04:00Unfortunately human women are not salmon so it wil...Unfortunately human women are not salmon so it will take a<br />while to get your super geniuses. With IVF<br />you are lucky to get 10 viable embryos. <br />Using the model from your slide deck, what is the chance that one of<br />them had 39 (68) fewer deleterious genes, which corresponds to a 1 (2) SD<br />improvement in intelligence, than their parents average of a 1000? Using binomial stat squatchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-65135264735042872502012-07-14T09:38:19.232-04:002012-07-14T09:38:19.232-04:00Why not use a computer with sufficient capacity to...Why not use a computer with sufficient capacity to select the set of advantageous intelligence alleles such that all offspring, i.e. of all parents, possess the highest members of the intelligence allele set? Such as the posited computer in A.C. Clarke's City and the Stars. Of course, in some sense, these offspring would not be true children of their parents as they would possess genes that JustinLoenoreply@blogger.com