tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post48879924179932989..comments2024-01-13T18:57:18.243-05:00Comments on Information Processing: Random microworlds: the mystery of nonshared environmentSteve Hsuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comBlogger123125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-24459041009494414832009-12-03T13:36:04.888-05:002009-12-03T13:36:04.888-05:00Yeah, I guess that is a fair criticism.Yeah, I guess that is a fair criticism.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584502524397663834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-21563009255573436372009-12-03T13:32:15.104-05:002009-12-03T13:32:15.104-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584502524397663834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-47660498652155102452009-12-03T08:44:42.852-05:002009-12-03T08:44:42.852-05:00>An 11 subtest battery, the WAIS, is >less g...>An 11 subtest battery, the WAIS, is >less g loaded than the homogeneous >Raven's?<br />><br />>This alone proves g is BS.<br /><br />That's a good point that deserves further analysis. e.g., is the Ravens really one-dimensional (all questions count equally)? Are these tests trying to measure the same "g" (the first principal component of the same reference dataAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12739952367667319400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-89057772322461911332009-12-03T01:50:17.904-05:002009-12-03T01:50:17.904-05:00"Thats right. Are you surprised that, since n..."Thats right. Are you surprised that, since not all tasks are equally g-loaded, a test with a bunch of tasks is less g-loaded?"<br /><br />You haven't got a clue.Ian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837467954881003505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-284823507239297272009-12-03T01:35:23.362-05:002009-12-03T01:35:23.362-05:00You're carrying around a g load in your pants....You're carrying around a g load in your pants.Ian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837467954881003505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-84093567624156653672009-12-03T01:28:20.239-05:002009-12-03T01:28:20.239-05:00An 11 subtest battery, the WAIS, is less g loaded ...An 11 subtest battery, the WAIS, is less g loaded than the homogeneous Raven's?<br /><br />Thats right.<br /><br />= CRAP<br /><br />The Flynn effect, infection, healthier mothers, blah, blah, blah<br /><br />= CRAP<br /><br />I would advise straight thinking but given that you can't think straight or otherwise I won't.Ian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837467954881003505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-79172531114991616532009-12-02T20:27:30.348-05:002009-12-02T20:27:30.348-05:00Better hygiene and housing might also help IQ by r...Better hygiene and housing might also help IQ by reducing infections of babies, as might secular changes in breast feeding. The impact of breast feeding on IQ is currently not completely clear (I think), though I havent read the papers or anything and I might have an opinion if I did. <br /><br />How far back do high quality IQ data go? Bottle feeding rose in the 40s and started siking in the 70sUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584502524397663834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-40211065217320372302009-12-02T20:15:34.471-05:002009-12-02T20:15:34.471-05:00An entire pop does have a (single) heritability, w...An entire pop does have a (single) heritability, whether or not there be subsets with different heritabilities. <br /><br />> An 11 subtest battery, the WAIS, is less g loaded than the homogeneous Raven's?<br /><br />Thats right. Are you surprised that, since not all tasks are equally g-loaded, a test with a bunch of tasks is less g-loaded? You wouldnt be, if you thought straight about it Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584502524397663834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-948301382406831732009-12-02T02:13:56.475-05:002009-12-02T02:13:56.475-05:00An 11 subtest battery, the WAIS, is less g loaded ...An 11 subtest battery, the WAIS, is less g loaded than the homogeneous Raven's?<br /><br />This alone proves g is BS.<br /><br />All y'all ain't never gonna get it is you?Ian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837467954881003505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-56189726410826447042009-12-02T02:05:12.241-05:002009-12-02T02:05:12.241-05:00Who gave an average of heritabilities? Someone who...Who gave an average of heritabilities? Someone who didn't know what it was. <br /><br />What was the mean distance between the twins in miles?<br /><br />Raven's up by 21 points in 30 years in the Netherlands.<br /><br />Y'all is jus' too stupid to think about this here.Ian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837467954881003505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-66126863789096573782009-12-01T21:16:51.791-05:002009-12-01T21:16:51.791-05:00Eric, you might be onto something:
the MZAs (.78)...Eric, you might be onto something:<br /><br />the MZAs (.78) and MZTs (.76) scored basically the same on a Raven's Matrices - Mill-Hill Vocabulary test composite.<br /><br />Raven's has the highest g-loading of any test, but I don't know about the mill-hill. my impression is that a vocab test would be less g-loaded than the WAIS, which was created to measure reasoning ability.<br /><ben ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04802090467106119091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-62551158041721344252009-12-01T19:57:38.646-05:002009-12-01T19:57:38.646-05:00Ben /g/,
> WAIS IQ-----.69-----.88
One questi...Ben /g/,<br /><br />> WAIS IQ-----.69-----.88<br /><br />One question is, how /g/-loaded is that WAIS? Some of the other traits it loads on might be more environmentally-determined than /g/.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584502524397663834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-87605733985002643472009-12-01T19:31:03.549-05:002009-12-01T19:31:03.549-05:00Steve,
I find the numbers surprising too. JR Har...Steve,<br /><br />I find the numbers surprising too. JR Harris gave me the references in a recent reply to one of my emails. She uses this argument in No Two Alike (which I'm yet to read) as well, to show that there is a small shared environmental influence.<br /><br />What I don't get (and what I just emailed her back), is how within both types of adult twin studies, shared environmentben ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04802090467106119091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-29807551563396547932009-12-01T18:52:39.772-05:002009-12-01T18:52:39.772-05:00Ben,
Those numbers are a bit surprising to me -- ...Ben,<br /><br />Those numbers are a bit surprising to me -- they seem to indicate a small shared environment for identical twins. In the Plomin links I provide he doesn't seem to acknowledge that interpretation, although I should look again.<br /><br />I have read the claim in various places that twin results tend to overstate the size of shared environment, at least relative to what ordinarySteve Hsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-69126495522134204722009-12-01T17:54:49.751-05:002009-12-01T17:54:49.751-05:00Just double checked Bouchard (1990). It is adults...Just double checked Bouchard (1990). It is adults as well:<br /><br />"As illustrated in table 4, however, adult MZ twins are about equally similar on most physiological and psychological traits, regardless of rearing status."<br /><br />Table 4:<br />...<br />Variable--------MZA ----- MZT<br />...<br />WAIS IQ---------.69-------.88ben ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04802090467106119091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-65894417480267704342009-12-01T17:22:19.779-05:002009-12-01T17:22:19.779-05:00"Ordinary" twins? I guess he means MZ to..."Ordinary" twins? I guess he means MZ together but he should say that.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584502524397663834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-32234520184992383952009-12-01T17:13:30.208-05:002009-12-01T17:13:30.208-05:00They are adults. Here is an excerpt and list of t...They are adults. Here is an excerpt and list of the studies from the section "The heritability of IQ in adulthood" in Bouchard (2009):<br /><br />"Table II shows the results of the five extant studies of MZA twins, who are mostly adults (Newman et al. 1937; Shields 1962; Juel-Nielsen 1980; Pedersen et al. 1992; Johnson et al. 2007). There is very little variability from study to ben ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04802090467106119091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-48698804836653787612009-12-01T17:02:44.306-05:002009-12-01T17:02:44.306-05:00I'm not familiar with that result -- what age ...I'm not familiar with that result -- what age are they when tested? I seem to recall reading the claim that there was no significant difference.Steve Hsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-33403343064518455882009-12-01T16:52:51.484-05:002009-12-01T16:52:51.484-05:00Steve,
I don't know if you're still readi...Steve,<br /><br />I don't know if you're still reading the comments here, but I was wondering what your explanation is for adult identical twins reared together being more similar than adult identical twins reared apart. Bouchard et al (1990) found the correlation was .88 for reared-together MZ twins but only .69 for reared-apart pairs. A similar estimate for reared-aparts is available ben ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04802090467106119091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-74564678121884524362009-12-01T08:11:48.227-05:002009-12-01T08:11:48.227-05:00Igon,
You are correct, as n gets larger the contr...Igon,<br /><br />You are correct, as n gets larger the contribution to the overall variance from each factor goes down. In my crude model I was thinking that n had a fixed value that characterizes different distinguishable factors of a certain size. But I just wanted to make the point that n could be pretty big -- it's not just a few factors.Steve Hsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02428333897272913660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-14727441807409017022009-12-01T04:18:38.832-05:002009-12-01T04:18:38.832-05:00from Steve's post:
>Technical remark: if n...from Steve's post:<br /><br />>Technical remark: if n is large,<br />>and factors uncorrelated, <br />>the observed environmental <br />>variation in a population will be <br />>suppressed as n^{-1/2} relative to <br />>the maximum environmental effect. <br /><br />That can't be right, because "n" is a modeling artefact. N could even be infinite, under some Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12739952367667319400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-3408907027131746572009-11-30T20:28:20.693-05:002009-11-30T20:28:20.693-05:00If there are, you should look at countries with si...If there are, you should look at countries with similar wealth. A lot of US foreign adoptees are from China, I think. Though it wont remain so for more than another 14 years tops, there are still many places there where you wouldnt want to be born. Lot of tuberculosis. Some children might be hungry enough to lower their adult height and IQ, I am not certain though. In India definitely, and that Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584502524397663834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-63994246796187811072009-11-30T20:00:44.136-05:002009-11-30T20:00:44.136-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837467954881003505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-71224641264425152812009-11-30T16:12:30.295-05:002009-11-30T16:12:30.295-05:00Are there any transnational twin studies?Are there any transnational twin studies?Ian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837467954881003505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5880610.post-28519961797620198262009-11-30T13:01:10.169-05:002009-11-30T13:01:10.169-05:00anon, The obesity example just shows that the mix ...anon, The obesity example just shows that the mix of native and external influences can change over time, or differ for different pops. We know that. I assume you would see a robustly larger environmental component for adult IQ in subsaharan Africa. Likewise, if we all started being hungry often here in the West including in childhood, and men started growing to 5'4" on average, then theUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584502524397663834noreply@blogger.com